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YGroups owned and moderated by people that practice these questionable tactics. 

Greens4Gore - Changed to Greens4DemocraticVictories

Notice:   Because the moderators  of Greens4DemocraticVictories will not approve my messages un-molested by their thoughts, I refuse to post to their group.  They can respond to any message that is approved but they should not add words that change to meaning of the message that is posted.  Despite repeated attempts by them to to get me to post there by presenting totally in-accurate information about me they will have to communicate with me offline about this personal mater.  It is no ones business who I voted for but I can guarantee that I did not vote or campaign for Nader or Bush (I or II).  I do not know nor have I ever met either of these people.  I do not own the WatchDubya list.  Them posting messages to theirs and other YGroups implying I do, is just more of what looks to be the same kind of propaganda this group (Greens4DemocraticVictories) and their members  has been spewing forth in all of what it presents.  Most of the people that are banned from WatchDubya that also belong to Greens4DemocraticVictories is because attempts to communicate with them to resolve private issues or WatchDubya group issues privately have been returned as user unknown.  Because WatchDubya has a rule to resolve personal problems privately offline,  I am bound to deal with them privately and not on the WatchDubya, Greens4DemocraticVictories or any other YGroup.  Once these people can start a private dialog with me where their email address does not bounce my attempts to communicate with them, we can resolve this issue.

More disturbing information:  I have searched the web for messages by these authors and have found an amusing similarity.
group 1 =,, , , 

group 2 = group 1 plus 

Group 1:
The ISP of all of these emails are the same. This ISP includes the source IP address in each message. Looking at the headers of messages from the members of group one I can find identical source IP from each in this group. The ones that are identical are either seconds apart for send times or series of three close send times (person 1, person 2, person 1) had identical source IPs. This indicates that all of these email address are from the same PC thus the same person.

Group 2:
Looking at the headers of messages sent to a YGroup that appears to be owned by (this is who responded to a message to the groups owner), where all messages must be approved, I find all of these email addresses as approving the messages.

I see in that YGroup, that each of these aliases post messages in support of the other. I also see this on many other groups. I can't imagine why anyone would do this unless it is to make it appear that the expressed opinion is more popular that it really is. This is deception and looks like fraud.

When I post messages to these addresses they are returned as Unknown users, yet the groups that I moderate that has them as members do not show them as bounced.  This means the address is real but they are set up to selectively bounce.

At best I find this very peculiar activity.  It leads me to believe that the information that is posted by them has no validity.

Warning:  This group appears to be a front (un-wittingly) for Republican propaganda.  If you read the description at the home page of the YGroup, it supports multiple lines for Democratic runners.  This would serve to divide the the Democratic vote and help insure a Republican victory.  I get no response from the owner of this group disputing these allegations.  The moderator will not approve any messages I post to the group that would start a discussion about the allegations.  Very suspicious behavior.

Update: After further correspondence with the owner of the group (yes I finally got a response), I can only respond with these findings.  There is an awful lot of hatred and anger towards Nader there.  I was unable to convince them that this hatred and anger was planted there by the Republicans.  They refuse to let go of it.  I got the owners attention by posting this message 1.  It was not originally approved but I was allowed to post a series of messages that tried to explain how their anger and hatred was misguided towards Nader and not the Republicans.  This failed and then he decided to approve the message that got his attention but not until it was altered.  Though this message 2 had the text that was at the URL and was my words, I did not put them in the message and he did not take credit for putting them there.  I sent this message 3 to complain about this tactic and it showed up altered as well as this message 4.  I have since sent message 5 but it has not shown up at the group.  I have no idea if this propaganda is intentional or not, but it is clear to me that it is Republican propaganda, they have just not caught up with this fact yet.  Proceed with caution.

Follow-up:  It is the Republicans that planted the seed that started the rift between the Greens and the Democrats.   The focus should not be on Nader but on the Republicans.  As long as this rift between the Greens and the Democrats exists the Republicans will win.  If you want to fight fire with fire, start a rift between the Greens and the Republicans (this is not my recommendation, just a thought).  To continue to tear into Nader is to help the Republicans succeed.

Another Follow-up:  The list owner/moderator continues to modify post I have made to the group without identifying what part is the original post (my original message) and what he has added and whether it is a quote from somewhere else or if it is his own words.  The moderator is trying to pass off his words and his quotes as mine by adding quoted text from websites and other messages as mine.  This is a practice of deception and I conclude it is the purpose and practice of the whole group.  He should post the original messages and respond to them with his commentary in a separate message instead.  I could not find any part of this message 6 that was from me in it's entirety, yet is was post as being from me.  He replied to a message that he had modified previously as being from me.  He copied this text then added his own words and passed it of as if I was the author of the message.  I can't tell were the quote ends and his words begin.  Please proceed with caution if you join this group.

Final Conclusion:  I have been informed through post by hermitgarden (the apparent owner of Greens4DemocraticVictories, at least he is the moderator that is modifying my posts)  that the real meaning of "an additional line to run on" that is found in their groups description  is to follow the NY model.  By this, he explains, is to have a third (or what ever) party (called the Green Party) that will have the same candidates as the Democrats.  I feel this is an un-realistic goal.  I now of States that allow Parties to endorse candidates from other parties but none that require them to do so exclusively.  This means that there would be nothing to prevent someone from campaigning on the Party platform of endorsing a Democratic candidate(s) from the Democratic Party and then having and 11th hour Candidate actually showing up on the Voting both.  This would essentially split the Democratic vote (assuming the candidate had near Democratic views) thus ensuring a Republican victory.  The better approach would be to get the Democratic Party to endorse the better policies of the Green Party thus getting the votes that way.  This would reduce if not eliminate the possible abuse of a Party.  Look at what Buchanan did to Perot's Party.   

This combined with their relentless hatred and anger for Nader still leads me to conclude this site is all about Republican propaganda.  The sad part is that they don't even realize it.  \

I will repeat this here.  To continue the rift between the Greens (Nader) and the Democrats is to doing the Republicans bidding.  Please read "Are you the opposition un-wittingly".