-----Original Message-----
From: Im A Liberal [mailto:WatchD....@.....Com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:00 PM
To: Greens4DemocraticVictories@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Greens4DemocraticVictories] Re: WatchDubya Links and Stuff
Moderator adds: this is what you updated it to????
I assume that they are written by you , by "Im A Liberal" WatchDubya@iUpTown.Com
They have been added to your post as have the comments from the moderator
These are the exact words to be found at http://www.iuptown.com/WatchDubya/default.asp?MainUrl=mailing_Lists.htm
"Greens4Gore - Changed to Greens4DemocraticVictories - Warning, this group appears to be a front for Republican propaganda. If you read the description at the home page of the YGroup, it supports multiple lines for Democratic runners. This would serve to divide the the Democratic vote and help insure a Republican victory. I get no response from the owner of this group disputing these allegations. The moderator will not approve any messages I post to the group that would start a discussion about the allegations. Very suspicious behavior.
Update: After further correspondence with the owner of the group (yes I finally got a response), I can only respond with these findings. There is an awful lot of hatred and anger towards Nader there. I was unable to convince them that this hatred and anger was planted there by the Republicans. They refuse to let go of it. I got the owners attention by posting this message 1. It was not originally approved but I was allowed to post a series of messages that tried to explain how their anger and hatred was misguided towards Nader and not the Republicans. This failed and then he decided to approve the message that got his attention but not until it was altered. Though this message 2 had the text that was at the URL and was my words, I did not put them in the message and he did not take credit for putting them there. I sent this message 3 to complain about this tactic and it showed up altered as well as this message 4. I have since sent message 5 but it has notFollow-up: It is the Republicans that planted the seed that started the rift between the Greens and the Democrats. The focus should not be on Nader but on the Republicans. As long as this rift between the Greens and the Democrats exists the Republicans will win. If you want to fight fire with fire, start a rift between the Greens and the Republicans (this is not my recommendation, just a thought). To continue to tear into Nader is to help the Republicans succeed
No Republicans decided that Democrats and genuine Greens should be mad at Remorseless Raplhie Nader.
Nader's own actions, giving the White House to Dubya and showing absolutely no remorse about that
Have made us all mad. In fact we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore, to borrow a phrase from the movie "Network". We are not going to take the Naderites splitting the Left again
By running a Green Party candidate for Governor of New Jersey who will had the Governor's race to the
Republican and permit that Republican, ultra-right-wing born-again-anti-choice-anti-gun-control arabist Bret Schundler to pick Torricelli's replacement in the US Senate and hand the Majority Leader's seat in the US Senate back to Trent Lott. You say you have a different approach to the Greens and the Naderites ( the two are not always the same, real Greens are casting off Nader's Cult of Personality and becoming independent from the Naderites. Well I call upon you to contact the Green Party Candidate for Governor of
New Jersey and ask him to get off the ballot. Will you do so? Yes or No ? Yes or No?
By the way who did YOU vote for in November? Was it Remorseless Ralphie Nader?
Are you a Naderite yourself???
Answer that question please. Thanks. And please do change your description of our group which
Appears below and has been inserted below by the moderator so that our group can see your words.
You KNOW now that this group is NOT designed " to divide the Democratic vote", as you put
It in our own words below. Let us see your page updated today thanks. By the way, should you contact
The Green Party Candidate for Governor of New Jersey please post a synopsis of your
Discussions with him here so we may see what efforts you are making to make sure that the
Left is not divided and are urging him to get off the ballot in New Jersey. You also ought to know
Better than to accuse this group of being a Republican plant. Far from it! Are you a Republican by the way?? Are you a Naderite???
UNLESS WE STOP THEM WE WILL LOSE THE SENATE
There is a Green Party Candidate for Governor of New Jersey We need to stop that candidacy from dividing the Left by educating the citizens of New Jersey about these divide and conquer tactics. Unless we do we will see a repeat of Florida in which Nader got away with splitting the Left and putting Dubya into the White House. The next Governor of New Jersey will pick Torricelli's replacement if Torricelli is forced out of office. If the Green candidate gets away with this the Republican candidate will Win and will pick a Republican to replace Torricelli in the US Senate.
Fool Us once shame on you! Fool us Twice Shame on Us. Don't let them do it to us again!
Everyone who can do so, should go to New Jersey, and work to make sure that the Greens do not get away with this divide and conquer garbage again! The US Senate is at stake in this NJ Gubenatorial campaign. We need to make sure that the Democratic Gubenatorial Candidate is elected.
"The Green Party of New Jersey Jerry L. Coleman for Governor
Updated May 01, 2001 OVER 20 YEARS OF COMMUNITY and GOVERNMENT
SERVICE TWO-TERM CITY COUNCILMAN, RAHWAY, NJ: Council President In
1994 Drafted Legislation To Improve Community Conditions CO-FOUNDER
AND CHAIRMAN Of The Concerned Citizens On The Environment Jerry is a
former member of The Union County Area Allocations Committee of the
Black United Fund Of New Jersey Used business and accounting skills
in reviewing proposals and funding requests from organizations. Jerry
has served as a member of the board of directors and chairman of the
finance committee of the Rahway Community Action Organization (JFK
CENTER). Jerry was the co-founder and first chairman of the Union
County Fair Housing Council-formed to end racial bias in housing
rentals and sales-and the founder and first president of the Union
County Senior Citizens Corporation-set up to help senior citizens
apply for program funding. He has served on the executive board of
directors of the Montclair State University Alumni Association and was
the founder and first president of the Montclair State University
Black Alumni Association that was organized to encourage alumni to
continue to support the programs of the college. Jerry holds a BS in
Business Administration And Professional Accounting from Montclair
State University and is a graduate of the Rutgers Executive Masters
Program In Public Administration. He is the founder and President of
Jerry L. Coleman Enterprise-Accounting and Consulting Services and has
extensive experience in managing non-profit organizations. Jerry has
been an advisor to numerous church and community groups in the areas
of fund raising, grant and proposal writing, community organizing and
economic development. He is an active member of the Cathedral Second
Baptist Church in Perth Amboy, N.J. CAMPAIGN INITIATIVES INCLUDE
Provide Funding To Insure That All Our Children Receive A Top Quality
Education Provide Adequate Funding For Job And Career Training Provide
Safe And Clean Streets In All Neighborhoods in New Jersey Provide
Adequate Funding For After School Tutorial And Recreational Programs
Provide Funds For The Construction Of Quality Schools And Health Care
Facilities Insure Reduction And Stabilization Of Property Taxes Insure
That Affordable Mortgage Rates Are Available For Home Owners Insure
That Affordable Automobile And Health Insurance Is Provided To All
People Increase Funding For College And Higher Education Scholarships,
Grants And Loans Increase Available Funding For Business Start Up And
Job Development Repair Boarded Up Buildings And Convert Them Into
Decent Affordable Housing Develop Programs That Support Unity And
Peace Between All Ethnic Groups End Racial Profiling By Police
Departments and To Establish Police Citizen Review Boards Clean Up The
Environment" http://gpnj.org/Campaign%202000/Jerry%20flyer.htm
CONTROL OF US SENATE MAY BE DECIDED IN NJ RACE
Here is you and others on this list may reach the Greens in New Jersey:
"The Green Party of New Jersey
Updated June 18, 2001
ContactsOfficers
Chair
Joe Fortunato
(Montclair)
973-744-5958
JFortun845@aol.com
Vice-Chair
Joe Mosley
(New Brunswick)
732-745-2602
JoeMosley@aol.com
Secretary
Earl Gray
(Red Bank)
732-219-5841
EarlGray119@aol.com
Treasurer
Elizabeth Arnone
(Brick)
732-920-8647
elizarnone@aol.com
Standing Committees
Finance Committee
Helen Francis
(Montclair)
973-783-5024
Membership Com.
Dan Larkin
(Manalapan)
732-972-6814
dlar194nep@aol.com
Policy Committee
Earl Gray
(Red Bank)
732-219-5841
EarlGray119@aol.com
Communications
Jane Hunter
(Bound Brook)
732-560-0276
janemhunter@att.net
Ad Hoc Committees
Electoral Com.
Joe Fortunato
(Montclair)
973-744-5958
JFortun845@aol.com
Diversity Committee
Joe Mosley
(New Brunswick)
732-745-2602
JoeMosley@aol.com
http://gpnj.org/contact.html
I assume that they are written by you , by "Im A Liberal" WatchDubya@iUpTown.Com
They have been added to your post as have the comments above
These are the exact words to be found at http://www.iuptown.com/WatchDubya/default.asp?MainUrl=mailing_Lists.htm
"Greens4Gore - Changed to Greens4DemocraticVictories - Warning, this group appears to be a front for Republican propaganda. If you read the description at the home page of the YGroup, it supports multiple lines for Democratic runners. This would serve to divide the the Democratic vote and help insure a Republican victory. I get no response from the owner of this group disputing these allegations. The moderator will not approve any messages I post to the group that would start a discussion about the allegations. Very suspicious behavior.
Update: After further correspondence with the owner of the group (yes I finally got a response), I can only respond with these findings. There is an awful lot of hatred and anger towards Nader there. I was unable to convince them that this hatred and anger was planted there by the Republicans. They refuse to let go of it. I got the owners attention by posting this message 1. It was not originally approved but I was allowed to post a series of messages that tried to explain how their anger and hatred was misguided towards Nader and not the Republicans. This failed and then he decided to approve the message that got his attention but not until it was altered. Though this message 2 had the text that was at the URL and was my words, I did not put them in the message and he did not take credit for putting them there. I sent this message 3 to complain about this tactic and it showed up altered as well as this message 4. I have since sent message 5 but it has notFollow-up: It is the Republicans that planted the seed that started the rift between the Greens and the Democrats. The focus should not be on Nader but on the Republicans. As long as this rift between the Greens and the Democrats exists the Republicans will win. If you want to fight fire with fire, start a rift between the Greens and the Republicans (this is not my recommendation, just a thought). To continue to tear into Nader is to help the Republicans succeed."
Maybe this change will help.
http://www.iuptown.com/WatchDubya/default.asp?MainUrl=mailing_Lists.htm
Wear an orange and black ribbon
See http://CTRally.iUpTown.com to see why
-----Original Message-----
From: hermitgarden@hotmail.com [mailto:hermitgarden@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:07 PM
To: Greens4DemocraticVictories@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Greens4DemocraticVictories] Re: WatchDubya Links and Stuff
I hope that you now understand that this group is not attempting to
split Democratic votes but rather is hoping to enlarge them by
adding them together with other lines where the totals may be
combined to provide victory for Democrats.
If so please alter the quoted section of your website
regarding this group a.s.a.p. thanks.
This is the quoted section that needs to be altered a.s.a.p. thanks:
""Greens4Gore - Changed to Greens4DemocraticVictories - Warning, this
group
appears to be a front for Republican propaganda. If you read the
description at the home page of the YGroup, it supports multiple lines
for Democratic runners. This would serve to divide the the Democratic
vote and help insure a Republican victory. I get no response from the
owner of this group disputing these allegations. The moderator will
not approve any messages I post to the group that would start a
discussion about the allegations. Very suspicious behavior." Did you
write the section just quoted?
If not who did? When will it be altered to reflect the facts about
this group???
If you do not now understand that this group is not attempting to
split Democratic votes please
Explain what is behind that misunderstanding on your part for it seems
eminently clear that this group is NOT attempting to split Democratic
votes. Is that clear to everyone now including you?
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Greens4DemocraticVictories group:
Better Communication Poll
A prominent activist felt that our
message meant we were trying to DIVIDE
Democrats and SPLIT Democratic votes by
providing additional lines for Democrats
to run on. Therefore we need to
Communicate our message better. We want
to provide additional lines for
Democrats to run on in states where the
votes can be COMBINED into a single
total So that the Democrats can WIN!
How can we communicate this effectively?
Please vote for as many as you wish.
Please do not vote for us to see your
suggestion on how we should re-write our
group description until your message
with that suggestion has been posted to
the group. We want to follow the
paradigm of New York State in which
different party totals are combined when
a candidate is on more than one line.
New York State Model
Other Models - please post any you know
of
My Suggestion- please see my post
o New York State Model
o Other Models - please post any you know of
o My Suggestion- please see my post
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Greens4DemocraticVictories/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not
collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web
site listed above.
Thanks!
--- In Greens4DemocraticVictories@y..., "Im A Liberal"
<WatchDubya@i...> wrote:
> Moderator asks where exactly, just exactly where and which words
were
> altered??? Which exact words???
> below is excerpted from "Im A Liberal" <WatchDubya@i...>
> "This message has been altered"
> Wear an orange and black ribbon
> See http://CTRally.iUpTown.com to see why
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I'm A Liberal [mailto:WatchD....@i...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:10 AM
> To: Greens4DemocraticVictories@y...
> Subject: [Greens4DemocraticVictories] WatchDubya Links and Stuff
>
>
> You might want to visit
http://www.iuptown.com/WatchDubya/default.asp?
> MainUrl=mailing_Lists.htm and check out the entry for Greens4Gore
> AKA Greens4DemocraticVictories
>
http://www.iuptown.com/WatchDubya/default.asp?MainUrl=mailing_Lists.ht
m
> "Greens4Gore - Changed to Greens4DemocraticVictories - Warning,
this group
> appears to be a front for Republican propaganda. If you read the
> description at the home page of the YGroup, it supports multiple
lines for
> Democratic runners. This would serve to divide the the Democratic
vote and
> help insure a Republican victory. I get no response from the owner
of this
> group disputing these allegations. The moderator will not approve
any
> messages I post to the group that would start a discussion about the
> allegations. Very suspicious behavior."
>
> moderator asks who wrote section in quotes immediately above?
> was it "Im A Liberal" <WatchDubya@i...> ?
> secion in quotes was at website provided in message from
> "Im A Liberal" <WatchDubya@i...>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Please forward this to everyone you feel it should be
> forwarded to. Thank you.
> Greens4DemocraticVictories-subscribe@y...
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Greens4DemocraticVictories
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Please forward this to everyone you feel it should be
forwarded to. Thank you.
Greens4DemocraticVictories-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Greens4DemocraticVictories
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please forward this to everyone you feel it should be
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.